One thing I will say that everyone who has gone to University agrees with:
You will never get a fair view of the world from your professors. There are no moderates. There are no people who see the shades of grey. All of them are either extremely conservative or extremely liberal, and will try to push these views on their students.
I'm sure that the economic professors are likely all conservatives, and thus will take the ultra-conservative view. I'm sure the environmental sciences will preach that its because of greed.
In all honesty, it isn't one factor. It isn't Obama killing the market with threats of taxation. It isn't corporate greed. It wasn't that bastard butterfly flapping its wings on the other side of the world. The perfect storm is only created when every factor that can go wrong, does go wrong in such a way that you're screwed no matter where you go or what you do.
Right now, all these bubbles made are collapsing and cascading, and its like a set of dominoes. Sure, we can ask why that domino falls harder than the other, but it doesn't mean jack all because the result is still the same.
And it was both Republicans and Liberals who sided with the bailout, so it was a bipartisan fail.
Our army already is on the other side of the world. That last troop surge was primarily made up National Guard and fresh army reservists. Personally I don't see the point in having 50K+ troops still tied up in Germany and Okinawa.
As for someone attacking the US while our army is on the other side of the world, you don't think our one thousand+ nukes are built for display purposes only do you?
The super rich are very scared. He's going to cost them money, so they're pulling out now while they're ahead. And even if they've outsourced their jobs, their stocks are still listed on US stock exchanges. If it's listed on the New York Stock Exchange, it doesn't matter whether a business is located in Chicago or China, it will still affect the US market. If the super rich were staying in the market, the markets wouldn't' be falling. Ma and Pa with their 401ks aren't leaving--investment advisor's are telling them to sit tight--the super rich are.
Saying something is so doesn't make it true. Try evidence, rather than phony scenarios. Investors clearly give a shit. Markets traditionally move after major speeches, as well as after major economic legislation. In addition, they move in anticipation of the pass or fail of economic bills in congress. Barack has announced major legislation and policy changes affecting the economy, and so the economy's moving. The markets moving in reaction is nothing new or special.
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So they're pulling out while they're ahead.
Because the rich are pulling out the market's falling. You expend so much effort going against my view before describing exactly what is happening and why the market is falling. The smart money's gone, the markets fall.
First thing: Why should taxpayers invest money in a failed business model? We shouldn't invest a dime in auto companies unless they restructure.
Secondly, the auto industry problems are minor. They have been trying to believe that America will fall apart if they collapse, but in fact they'll simply file chapter 11, restructure into a new profitable business model, and the American way will go on. There will not be huge layoffs on the scale they imply. Millions will not be unemployed. They are just trying to scale you into believing this. The smart money knows this. They're reacting to something else. Perhaps it's the fact that business is in a load of trouble next year? With higher taxes, more expensive employees (due to the coming mass unionization), more expensive health care, and more material costs (due to other businesses raising prices) businesses next year are going to be off very badly, and the markets will go down further. The smart money's getting out now.
So in summary of this thread. Telan's a retard, Kach is a retard, and Wes is a retard. Wait, that's not enough let me throw something else into the mix, let me make a statement based on no facts whatsoever to go along with that.
To say that Barack Obama is responsible for our failing economy is quite possibly the most retarded thing that's been mentioned in this thread, and that's saying something because there's been some REALLY stupid shit said in this thread.
I'd also throw in the "Islam is naturally a violent religion" statement in there. It's a statement based off pure ignorance. If you're going to say that then you can just as equally say that Christianity is inherently violent. If you disagree, then look into some of the atrocities committed in the name of God. There are just as many Christian extremists as Islamic extremists.
The problem with half of the things said in this thread is that they're proclaimed as fact but are riddled with inaccuracies, not to prove a point but to reinforce a point of view. Nobody's trying to come to any type of middle ground or come to any type of logical conclusion, they're trying to justify why their point of view is "right".
Like Wes mentioning that the founding fathers didn't own slaves? Seriously? How much hard evidence do you have to ignore in order to have these types of beliefs? Barack Obama is a Muslim? How many facts do you have to avoid to come to this conclusion? Barack Obama is responsible for a financial failure that occured while he was not even yet President-Elect but RUNNING for the Presidency? I mean.. seriously?
It must be nice to just completely ignore real facts and make up facts that support whatever beliefs you have.
And do you think I'm just a stupid little shit who is spewing BS about the market? Well I may be a little shit, but I'm certainly not stupid ,and I know quite a bit about the markets because I'm a successful commodity and stock trader (successful enough that my college is paid for). I know how markets move and react to these things.
Unless you are A) An economics professor or B) A stock/commodity trader, then kindly shut up because you are failing to counter my logical arguments with your simple mudslinging and insults.
Ummmm... say Kach? You don't need a PhD in economics to understand the financial crisis going on in this country, nor to you need a PhD to argue about it.
Why do I say that? Because I happen to know a few people who don't have PhD's in economics but are able to explain very well whats causing the problems in the economy, but at the same time, have been very good at estimating the outlook on a daily basis.
How were they able to do that? It's called self teaching, much like how I've self taught myself how to be attentive to certain situations and also how to keep my eyes peeled for people who could potentially cause harm - these skills are very useful to security and police officers - but I don't possess the certificate nor the degree to go into either fields - yet I possess the ability and the knowledge to explain both field very effectively and also explain the in's and outs, but at the same time, am able to argue about the rights and wrongs as well.
Again, I don't possess any criteria for these fields - yet I'm more knowledgable than those who DO possess the criteria. The saddest part? Two year's ago I was able to explain to three police officers about some of the laws they were assigned to uphold but also explain some of their own rules BETTER than they ever would've, and these are the same laws and rules they were REQUIRED to learn.
So again, you don't need a PhD, a master, a bachlers, or whatever the fuck you want to call it to properly argue about something.
Another example Kach; I know quite a bit about computers and how they run, how they are operated and some of the internal code. What's sad is that I know far more than most of the tech's at Best Buy for christs sake, yet due to the law I must get a degree in order to work there. The fact remains, you don't need a PhD or any other slip of paper to be allowed to argue about something.
