Nick Berg Killing - Kas' take
  • Posted On: Jun 10 2004 3:52am
There is a difference between real death and fake death...I don't see what's soo entertaining about seeing a life less man. People like that make me sick and have no morals...
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  • Posted On: Jun 10 2004 4:00am
I can understand that some people had to see. I'm not one of them. I have seen the victims of terrorism before and I don't need to see it again, this time with an American victim.

Anyway, Kas, I'm kinda proud of you for being open minded. As a right winger I figured the chances of you watching it and doing anything other then immediatly vomit and then curse allah and sign up for the millitary was unlikely.
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  • Posted On: Jun 10 2004 4:33am
So, DS6, people with a fascination for seeing things get killed make you loose your morals? ;)

Ahnk, I wouldn't put it past the CIA, Bush, Rumsfield or any one else in our government to pull a stunt like this to pander support. Heck, I wouldn't put it past someone to film something this obviously fake, to try to make it look like someone else faked it. Though, that theory is a step below saying that the illuminati did it... :-P
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  • Posted On: Jun 10 2004 4:46am
1) Most people replied by asserting that the execution occured as retribution to the abuse photos that had surfaced, but you have to ask yourself - do these terrorists, who are clearly capable of brainwashing people to the point where they are willing to kill and be killed for their beliefs, really have no concept of political tact? Here they are, the whole world screaming at the US for hypocrisy and injustice over these pictures, and they perform and publish this execution right in the heat of the scandal. In other words, these masters of brainwashing and spin and deception release a video of a despicable act just as the US, their sworn enemy, is being globally grilled. Does this make sense to you?

2) Second, I wonder what the standard issue chair is at Abu Ghraib prison?

news.xinhuanet.com/englis...170513.jpg

radio-canada.ca/nouvelles...ideo_n.jpg

*cough*

3) Is it not interesting that the wall colour at Abu Ghraib prison is identical to that of the video?

4) Is it not also interesting that Berg is wearing the same orange jumpsuit worn by prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison? Sure, you say, perhaps he was kidnapped directly from the prison (as stupid as this sounds, anyway) - but then can you please explain (7)?

5) Is it also not interesting that the timecodes in the video jump back and forth?

6) Is it also not interesting that Berg did not exhibit any of the convulsions that typically accompany decapitation? www.ahsc.arizona.edu/uac/...s/avma.htm I am suggesting here that Berg was already dead when the decapitation occured (which accounts for 5). Before you go calling me crazy, please review the evidence; why did he not exhibit the convulsions that go hand in hand with decapitation (especially such an extended one)?

7) Is it not curious that the US denies contact with Berg, and yet his friends and family insist that he told them he was being held by the US? Huh? Why?

8) Another tape oddity - the men SPEAK RUSSIAN for several seconds. Not only that, but they speak Arabic with Russian accents. That's right, in the final seconds of the tape, one of the men speaks in Russian. Those here who understand russian (and have the stomach to view that final seconds of the video) can verify this. Those who speak Arabic will be able to verify that these men speak Arabic in Russian accents.

9) Finally (the physical evidence that will convince you in case you already aren't)...
You will notice, in watching the video, that 6 times, a gold ring flashes on the hand of the executioner. What is the problem? Islam completely and utterly forbids men to wear gold rings. This fanatical muslim, willing to kill in a gutwrenching manner, and be killed for his beliefs, is violating one of the clear prohibitions of his religion? Really? DOES THIS MAKE SENSE TO YOU?

10) Nick Berg understands Arabic, but sits calmy while statement is read, waiting to be killed. Hmm?

11) One of the executioners is wearing Air Jordans. WHAT?

12) The "terrorists" signed the video, yet they wear hoods and masks. Why?

13) The "terrorists" have lily white hands.

14) The video time is in US Military English. What the hell?

Conclusion
As many has suspected, but have not had the time to build a solid case for, the execution of Nick Berg was performed by coalition interests (most likely independent Russian mercenaries) in order to dwarf the abuse pictures and sway public opinion back against the Iraqis and in support of the war by taking advantage of the emotional reaction we all experience when hearing of such an despicable act. The poor production quality (all the "curiosities" I have pointed out) of this video can be attributed to the haste in which it was made after the order was given to distract the public from the abuse scandal, and is in line with my conclusion.

Again, before you attack my conclusion, attack my evidence. No matter how crazy you think this sounds, examine the evidence objectively and please try to deny a single thing I have said. If you cannot deny my evidence, you logically cannot deny my conclusion. Make your replies free of subjective opinions and ad hominem attacks or I will not reply to them.


That was posted by me a while ago. Most of it raised questions in my mind, and then...

A Jordanian extremist suspected of bloody suicide attacks in Iraq was killed some time ago in U.S. bombing and a letter outlining plans for fomenting sectarian war is a forgery, a statement allegedly from an insurgent group west of the capital said.

Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was killed in the Sulaimaniyah mountains of northern Iraq “during the American bombing there,” according to a statement circulated in Fallujah this week and signed by the “Leadership of the Allahu Akbar Mujahedeen.”

There was no way to verify the authenticity of the statement, one of many leaflets put out by a variety of groups taking part in the anti-U.S. resistance.

The statement did not say when al-Zarqawi was supposedly killed, but U.S. jets bombed strongholds of the extremist Ansar al-Islam in the north last April as Saddam Hussein’s regime was collapsing.

It said al-Zarqawi was unable to escape the bombing because of his artificial leg.

Before the Iraq conflict began last March, U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell said al-Zarqawi received hospital treatment in Baghdad after fleeing Afghanistan. U.S. intelligence sources said he apparently was fitted with an artificial leg.


That's the guy who apparently took credit for it.

I doubt the CIA did it. Set it up maybe. The theory of Russians carrying out the act makes sense. I mean why the hell would Arabic terrorists speak broken Arabic with a Russian accent? It doesn't make sense.
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  • Posted On: Jun 10 2004 6:34am
I'm no linguist, but I would think it hard to understand anything from the audio on the clip I watched.
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  • Posted On: Jun 10 2004 7:10am
There are several different versions of the video up. They were capped off Arabic TV with different equipment and at different compression. Most were editted.
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  • Posted On: Jun 10 2004 2:04pm
Whomever it is in the video, they seem to be incredibley limp when thrown to the floor and during the actual decapitations.

The screams, if they did indeed belong to Berg, which I highly doubt, would come from someone who seems desperate to get away.

So whoever is getting chopped up in that video is very dead before getting thier head taken off.
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  • Posted On: Jun 11 2004 5:05am
Everyone seems to forget the Soviet invasion and occupation of Afghanistan for almost a decade?

Just mentioning it, since it could be basis for the use of russian langauge.

Also, Terrorist want their CAUSE known as being the perpetraitor of an act, not the terrorists themselves in this instance. They'd be @#%$ stupid terrorists if they didn't cover themselves up, otherwise they'd be asking to simply be identified, arrested and interrogated before they have an opportunity to commit more acts of terrorism against Western interests.

Then again, the opinion of some moron sitting behind a computer (in America no less, no offence but that doesn't inspire confidence in the same way having it coming from someone in Saudi Arabia) means absolutely nothing to me.

This idle speculation will get noone anywhere.
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  • Posted On: Jun 11 2004 5:32am
Everyone seems to forget the Soviet invasion and occupation of Afghanistan for almost a decade?


It's not forgotten at all. In fact, when I read this deconstruction I raised the issue myself.

It's actually fairly esaily explained away. Remembering that Iraq and the Soviet Union had many ties, arms deals and things of the like. To make trades, you MUST have people who speak both languages.

If they were Arab terrorists, they might know Russian thanks to the "oil for missles" deals pulled off under Saddam.


But someone else made a good point in counterance.


That doesnt explain why they would randomly speak Russian at the end of the video though, does it?


So the Russian thing is up in the air. You're not the first person to mention it Lup, it makes a lot of sense.

Also, Terrorist want their CAUSE known as being the perpetraitor of an act, not the terrorists themselves in this instance. They'd be @#%$ stupid terrorists if they didn't cover themselves up, otherwise they'd be asking to simply be identified, arrested and interrogated before they have an opportunity to commit more acts of terrorism against Western interests.


But here is the thing. There is uproar about the prisoner abuse that is almost universally swaying people against the United States... why would they then turn that support into almost universal derison? It doesn't really make sense. The killing of Nick Berg doesn't benefit their cause at all. It hinders it.

There's another interesting note. The Terrorists on the video stated that they were avenging the Iraqi prisoners who were shown in the photographs, the only problem is that the tape was released two days after the photos broke. According to Israeli doctors, Nick Berg was killed BEFORE the photos broke. How exactly does that work?

If you need evidence of who the video really supports, here's a quote from everybody's good buddy Rush, the next day.

Let me address your specific example. We're in a war. We have insurgents like this al-Sadr fellow and his terrorist cohorts and they've taken over a town and they've taken prisoner of the kids you're talking about, and they're hiding behind them. They are cowards. We are not there to murder. We are not there to maim and kill children. We are not there to burn down their homes or their schools and weren't. We are rebuilding their schools. We are rebuilding their hospitals. Their schools are open, their hospitals are functioning, the electricity is back with more wattage and power and functionality than it ever had under Saddam. The U.S. military does not target civilians, the U.S. military does not target children, the U.S. military does not seek them out for wanton murder and call it war.
So when I see those images, yeah, and I haven't, but I know they exist. I don't sit around and beat my chest over it and say, "Ho-ho, look what the mighty United States of America did." I blame the people who are responsible for it, and that is the cowards who are using those children as shields and using their women as shields and it frustrates me to no end that you don't also see this. You know who these people are. It is not a mystery. They are not good, there's nothing good about them. They are perverted, they are demented, they are pure trash human debris. They have declared war on us. They treat their own kids far worse than anything that might happen to them as a result of the United States riding to their rescue. These are the people that strapped bombs on their own kids and send them out to be blown up, and they lie to them, and they say, "Do this and you'll get to heaven. You'll meet Allah," or whatever it is they tell them. They are willing to kill their own kids to save their own lives. They are nothing. They have no value. They are not be respected. They are not to be protected. They are not to be understood. They are to be eliminated.
They do not bring anything decent to their own country, to their own people, to their own families, to their own population. They bring destruction. They bring death. They bring misery. They bring poverty. We, the United States of America, and the people of this country, banded together via our elected officials and our money are attempting to save these people from their own so-called leaders.
In the process, unfortunate things happen, but it is not our aim. It is not our purpose. It is not our desire. We do not put these kids on television and do to them what was done to Nick Berg, and then ask CBS to broadcast it to the Arab world. And the idea that you can call here and try to establish some degree of similarity offends the living hell out of me, Cliff.
Go ahead and vote for John Kerry. Go ahead and vote for your favorite Democrats, and go ahead and open the borders to the people that murdered Nick Berg and let 'em come on in because we're not going to have the guts to stand up to them because we're too busy feeling guilty that we're just like them. And you, Cliff, are going to be among the first to go. Because you're going to think they're going to understand you. And they're going to look at you as an absolute dupe and an idiot, useful or otherwise, and you're gone. You need to be thanking God there are people who have the vision and the courage to see this for what it is and are willing to put their lives on the line to protect ignorant people and people who are otherwise doing other things and don't care what's going on, to protect them so they can go ahead and live their lives as blissfully as they choose.


The killing of Nick Berg did more for right-wing interests then any terrorist. In fact, it hurt the terrorists, because it gained them hatred and ire that had faded away when this news hit the American public.

Food for thought.