Bowling for Columbine
Posts: 4291
  • Posted On: Sep 13 2003 2:38am
I recently saw that film. It was great, I thoroughly enjoyed it.

If everyone saw that film, it would be a better world. And fewer people would like Charlton Heston (The @#%$).

If you havn't heard of it, its' very difficult to describe. It is a documentary about America's excessive gun-use. There are some amazing facts and things in it. If you get the oppourtunity to, watch it. Escpecially right-wingers in america.
Posts: 2011
  • Posted On: Sep 13 2003 3:55am
Don't diss Charlton Heston, you damn dirty ape.
Posts: 5711
  • Posted On: Sep 13 2003 5:03am
Hey Dolash, it takes two 'wings' to fly.

Keep that in mind.
Posts: 7745
  • Posted On: Sep 13 2003 5:04am
Bowling for Columbine is not a documentary.

Documentaries don't lie, and stretch the facts to make them fit the picture the author wants to show.

Bowling for Columbine is a documentary like Goldie of the Golden Bears is a classic.

Link
Link
Link

A simple google search will reveal more.
Posts: 1381
  • Posted On: Sep 13 2003 5:31am
So, Kas... America's homicide rate is not fifty times that of Canada?

Or was the entire Columbine Massacare just a sham, designed to do... what, exactly?

I know how much you love Right-Wing, Viva la Bush, Americanism, and while Michael Moore might be far from a Saint when it comes to movie making, none of your information really means much to me.

Because when it comes back down to it, America still has 250 000 guns and 10 000 murders a year, and something is still wrong.

So forgive someone for stretching a few facts to try and figure out why that many people are dying per year, while your closest neighbour averages less than 200 per year.

(Even were you to times Canada's population by ten, bringing it on par with America, we're still down by 8000 odd deaths).
Posts: 5711
  • Posted On: Sep 13 2003 10:43pm
So, Kas... America's homicide rate is not fifty times that of Canada?


You totally failed to take into consideration the issue of population. Perhaps you should consider adressing the issue on a per capita basis rather then making blanket statements.

(Even were you to times Canada's population by ten, bringing it on par with America, we're still down by 8000 odd deaths).


Purely mathmatical, failing entirely to take into account countless variables. Who are you to say that given the same population explosion as expierianced by the US of A, we Canadians would not be in exactly the same position? The fact of the matter is that you cannot, nor can any other mortal man, simply due to the massive ammount of variables contained in the equation.

You have to consider all internal and external influences when discussing a matter of that scale, some of which include, but are not limited to: Quality of Life, Social Standards, Popular Opinions, and History.

Comparitive studies have been dismissed as having no positive affect in solving or even considering an issue such as this, which must be contemplated on a National scale. Comparative critisism never works, and most often serves to the detriment of all parties involved.

Speaking as a Canadian.

The United States of America must set their own examples to follow.

(Please forgive the spelling errors rampant in the above post, either I am to harried or too lazy to correct 'em.)
Posts: 1381
  • Posted On: Sep 14 2003 1:48am
Okay, and again purely mathmatical, but if for every 10 000 people in America there are approximately 300 gun murders, that's still more than Canada's overall gun murder rate for 30 million people - or about 20 gun murders per 10 000 people.

Granted, there are differences between the two countries: where I live in Canada, for instance, the majority of the population is White, Asian, and Arabic, with very few African-Americans.

But the elements that are used as scapegoats, or reasons, for tragedies such as Columbine (and this was touched on in the film), are very present. We watch the same movies, play the same video games, listen to same music (in fact, Marylin Manson is one of my favourite artists).

Most of the other stuff I could say was already touched on in the movie, so I needn't repeat all that; but no other country in the world has a gun murder rate per capita that even comes close to that of the USA.
Posts: 5711
  • Posted On: Sep 14 2003 2:09am
Currently? Perhaps.

Things to consider:

A. Countless numbers have died in both the Middle East and the former Soviet Union, some would say murdered, but this has been exused by the politicians as justified military action.
B. Historically speaking personkind has had far higher 'murder' rates then are now prevalent in America... Much of which was carried out entirely without the help of guns.

Guns do not kill people. People with guns, and the intent, kill people. So do people without guns... Some without legs. The desire to kill is so engrained in humanity that 'bringing it to the public eye' serves but one purpose; to further inspire that desire.

The issue is not, and never was, Gun Control... It was just a platform.
Posts: 1381
  • Posted On: Sep 14 2003 2:21am
I disagree.

Most murders comitted by guns are not done in the first degree - meaning that they were either acts of anger, or accidents.

So while you are right that people have always killed people, many people who not had done so were it not for guns. If the kids who comitted the Columbine Massacre, for instance, had not had access to guns (semi-automatic weapons, at that), the tragedy would likely have not happened, or happened on a much smaller scale.

The point is, many murders would not have been possible or be able to be carried out without the presence of guns. Take away the guns, and what's left?

But, Gun Control is still only one element. The question (and this is B for C asked, is how is America so different from other countries that it has so many gun murders?
Posts: 5711
  • Posted On: Sep 14 2003 3:00am
Hmm... Considering the guns used : people killed by the Sept 11th attacks, I would have to say that a motivated person, like those who carried out the Columbine shootings, could have found other means to their ends.

And the really sad part is that personkind will only continue to develop quicker and more efficent ways of killing one another off.

Mwah...